Note from the Koreabridge Manager: We often receive emails or posts from people who feel they have been treated badly and/or wrongfully terminated by an employer. Normally, we do not allow these to get posted because we don't get into 'blacklist' types of posts due to potential legal and managerial headaches. This post, however, brings up some other issues about what is appropriate to do or say in the classroom, so I'm going to cautiously clear it for publishing. All names of individuals and institutions have been removed (expect the author). I realize that this topic could get pretty heated, pretty quickly. Feel free to argue your points passionately, but please attack ideas not people and do not mention any specific names of individuals or institutions. Any posts that contain insults or personal attacks will be deleted in their entirety.
OK, here goes.....
Until April 1st, I was the Principal at ....Academy in ...., Korea, which is a private high school under the auspice of a Christian University and on its campus too. I was terminated because I would not allow several teachers to teach abortion and homosexual marriage in the classroom and I reported it to the President of the University, which is the benefactor of the school. He terminated me immediately.
1. Teacher X is a professed lesbian who lives with her female lover and has also lived with her at the university apartments with the knowledge of administrators
SHe has openly taught the students that these items:
A. The student can make his/her own decisions regarding sexual preference.
B The student should always question tradition and authority and then decide if it should be followed.
C Each student has own right to decide what is right and wrong.
D. Teacher has been seen by Tim Avants, me, hugging passionately her lover in the teacher's office at the school.
The position at the Academy is her very first teaching job.
2. Teacher Y has taught the students that they can make their own decisions regarding the use of their body. SHe told female students that they have the right to end a pregnancy if sexual behavior outside of marriage results in pregnancy. SHe has also taught them that homosexual marriage is permissable and no one can tell them what to do with their body-even if they are still living at home and are minors. She said that terminating a pregnancy (abortion) is always acceptable and it is the girl's decision.
Teacher Y was terminated from her last position because she did the same thing there. During the process of her termination, she abruptly quit and came directly to the Academy where she lied on her application. I spoke with the Principal there and he told me everything.
This infromation was given to the adminstrators but they failed to act on it.
This is only her second job after graduation; she was terminated from her first job and is repeating the same behavior at the Academy.
3. Teacher Z has taught the girls that they have the right to have premarital sex if it seems "correct" for them to act on their feelings. SHe invited students to her house at the Academy housing where she lives unmarried with her boyfriend.
SHe told several girls that no one can tell them what to do with their bodies and that they are grown and can make their own decisions. SHe also said that moraility today does not depend on what other people think and parents cannot tell their children what to do in private.
The school administration has allowed her to live with her boyfirend. The administration knows it and the children know it. By the way, the University does not agree with these immoral acts but the school's administration has condoned it.
This is Teacher Z's very first teaching job. SHe is a new graduate.
4. Teacher W confronted me and said that the teachers should be allowed to teach whatever they want, ncluding homosexual marriage and that the children are big enough to make their own decisions. He is now the new Principal. I did a background search on him and he too lied on his application about his academic background.
These teachers have also made two students to go an extra semester of school because of wrong advice given during academic counseling on what to take the next semester. Teachers X and Y both caused a student to have to take an extra semester. Teacher Z gave bad counsel and caused a student to drop a class which must be made up in order to graduate. The teachers the academic advisers and do not have the knowledge or ability to do that work. ANother two students were forced to take the exact same course in two consecutive smesters.
This was watsed time in class but it was hidden by the teachers.
Your children are in danger because everything you have taught them is being torn down.
The image that you have of most AMericans is true. They go to Korea to get drunk, chase girls, and have sexual relationships in secret.
My doctorate is in Instructional Leadership and I am a Christian. I have 8 textbooks on the market and I have written 16 different programs around the world. I have taught tin the Middle East, Korea, AFrica, and the United States.
I am no one important but I took a 75 % cut in salary to work at the Academy. to help your children. I have had 5 children and this is my life, my career, I am no one but your children are everything. THeir entire future and their morality depends on these days.
I didn’t mention these these teachers did not turn in lesson plans, skipped work for many hours, went to Vietnam (a prostitute paradise-{name removed}did this and left his pregnant wife home alone), were laughed at by the boys for trying to be sexy, humilated students and received written warnings, screamed at this Principal because ({name removed}) wanted to dress sexy , etc
I reported all of these items as they happened. First I went to the Administrator and was told this: "Be quiet or else I will terminate your contract. Let them teach what they want." THat was in December.
I reported all of it again to another adminstrator.
I was terminated immediately and shoved out the door. Your children are in moral danger. This will affect their lives because they heard it from a teacher. "Have sex-it's ok! It's your decision! No one else's."
Parents, do you want your children to learn and hear this? ...from people they trust? ANd belive me, Teacher X looks at the young girls there with lust in her heart...with greedy eyes that want to eat. I have seen it. Girls, if she has touched you and has been too friendly, this is why.
Parents, I urge you to take your children out or at least investigate. Call Dr. L. Call the Board of Trustees for the University. Write the Presbyterian Church which is affiliated with the school. Do not accept it because your daughter may come to you next year and say," Mama, I am pregnant or I am homosexual."
No teacher there has children except Teacher W and he's 44 years old with a one year old. But they WILL corrupt your innocent children and they are this minute. As a father and professional teacher and teacher trainer, I KNOW these people are not qualified but rather than terminate them and warn the parents, I was terminated to keep it quiet. I love your children and hope and pray that this is exposed because they are infinitely worth more than all heaven and earth and all the schools in the world.
That is why I write this.
God bless you.
Students please allow your parents to see this. I will answer emails.
Sincerely
Tim Avants
Re: Homosexuality Taught by Americans in Private Korean school
I have to agree with the first paragraph of lee's post. It is not up to the foreigner to talk, teach or advocate same sex relationships. That is a paren't job. Somewhere along theline, the western teacher has gotten into their heads that they are the realparent and must teach inappropriate material because they do not agree with the religious or parental guidance given to students.
That is not their call, especially when the subject they are to teach is English. It is far outside the scope and authority of the teacher to delve into topics that belong solely in the realm of the parent.
Jay Vander is right as well. Too many foreign teachers are sticking their noses in where they don't belong.
Re: Homosexuality Taught by Americans in Private Korean school
True enough. And especially since it's allegedly sponsored by a Christian university. The Bible clearly consemns
homosexuality in both the New and Old Testaments.
Re: Homosexuality Taught by Americans in Private Korean school
Dakota is right. Christians regard homosexuality (and abortion) as wrong because God said it is wrong. Where does He say that (according to Christians)? In Scripture, the 10 Commandments and the teachings of Jesus, who is regarded as God incarnate.
"As for teaching this or anything else at schools, it's up to the school-not the teacher!" Maybe, but Mr. Avants said he was the principal, so he was in the school administration. Since what the foreign teachers did and taught violated university policy, Mr. Avants was clearly in his rights to report them. That he was fired for doing it is disgraceful. It's even more disgraceful that (according to Mr. Avants) one of the teachers replaced him as principal.
A school sponsored by a Christian university teaching that homosexuality and abortion are OK is bad enough. Apparently, there are some other issues here that are clearly wrong whether you are Christian or non-Christian. Apparently, some of the teachers were in violation of school policy. When this was reported, the principal was terminated. How can an administrator do his job if the rules are not obeyed or changed at the whim of the higher-ups? And if a teacher teaches that students can choose which laws to obey or disobey, isn't this anarchy? When is it right for any teacher to do this?
Mr. Avants statements should've been checked by his supervisors for veracity. If he made them up, he should've been disciplined. If his allegations were true, firing him was stupid, and Christian parents of the students should be encouraged to withdraw from the school and find a REAL Christian school. Non-Christian parents who don't want their kids learning that anarchy is OK should do likewise.
Re: Homosexuality Taught by Americans in Private Korean school
"Mr. Avants was clearly in his rights to report them. That he was fired for doing it is disgraceful. It's even more disgraceful that (according to Mr. Avants) one of the teachers replaced him as principal. "
This is why I do not bel;ieve that what was said in the OP was true and really took place. No christian university or school would replace a christian, fire him/her, simply for reporting those who were not doing their job and teaching topics that were clearly inappropriate.
The christian school obviously would not be considered christian if they did that and they would lose many, many christian students.
Oh and the Bible is NOT just another book. There are many who wish it were.
Re: Homosexuality Taught by Americans in Private Korean school
Re: Homosexuality Taught by Americans in Private Korean school
@Scandalon: Where is homosexuality explicitly mentioned in the 10 Commandments? And what does Christ actually say about the subject? I'm no Bible expert, but I don't think the book harps on about it at length.
Homosexuality is specifically condemned in The Book of Leviticus, which is the Bible's silliest how-to-please-an-angry deity chapter. Yes, Leviticus comes out strong against it, but it also has nasty things to say about lepers, menstruating women, and proper ways to sacrifice your goat. But modern Christian conservatives seem to be ONLY concerned with the homosexuality bit; the rest of the silly and outdated mandates in Leviticus go entirely unmentioned, and for good reason: no sane human could justify them (permanent exile for sleeping with a menstruating woman?). This is called cherry picking. If you're going to quote the Bible as some sort of absolute truth to me, be prepared to defend some of its more unsavory "truths" (which are many).
Re: Homosexuality Taught by Americans in Private Korean school
"But modern Christian conservatives seem to be ONLY concerned with the homosexuality bit; the rest of the silly and outdated mandates in Leviticus go entirely unmentioned,"
Homosexuality is mentioned as a sin in the NT which is why you will not find the other things you list as a concern for modern christians. Some of the things listed are restricted to the Mosaic law which was basically for the Isaraelites..It would take a very godly person to do a very long and honest study about what does or does not apply for modern christians today.
"I tend to agree with that. Normally, no truly Christian school would do such a thing. However, we are living in strange times. Koreans educated in the US under PC education would tend to support homosexuality and abortion. PC-style education is taught these days, even in some Christian schools. For example, many stateside "Christian" organizations right now "struggle" with ordaining or appointing homsexual clergy or to other positions. There should be absolutely no argument since the Bible is clear, but not every Christian school in the US gives a sound Christian education."
I do not disagree with you but something sounds fishy to me about the OP and if christian churches in NA are doing that then I would question their christianity. I do know that many churches are opting for PC style ideals even though it is not a christian teaching and that is wrong.
There should be no struggle about ordaining homosexuals or even women. It should not be done as the Bible is very clear about what God wants for His church.
" have to agree with the first paragraph of lee's post."
When I said this, Mr. Lee's post was the last one written but since I am still on a time delay, my post got to the board quite late and his comment is found on the first page of this thread.
Re: Homosexuality Taught by Americans in Private Korean school
Where is it listed as a sin in the NT? Quote it.
And I don't believe God mentions anything about His church or ordination in The Bible, either. Didn't the whole church and priests thing come well afterwards?
Whatever, I have no use for the fairy tales of organized religion anyway. You keep bowing to your bearded sky master. I'll keep thinking for myself.
Re: Homosexuality Taught by Americans in Private Korean school
"I have no use for the fairy tales of organized religion anyway." Then there's no use in answering any of your questions, is there? It wouldn't help with your real problem--rebellion against God and His laws. It's obvious from your posts that you hate the God of the Bible, but He is your judge. Jesus said in Matthew 12:36 that all men will give an account on the day of judgement for every careless word they have spoken. Your flippant attitude toward God and His laws leads to death. Romans 6:33 says the wages of sin is death.
The very laws you label as "silly" will condemn you on that day. To name a few, here are some: do not bear false witness, do not steal, do not commit adultery (which Jesus defines as looking with lust, something you can do as male or female...or homosexual). Have you ever committed any of these? Then you're not fit for Christ's kingdom.
You see, it's not merely an issue of whether you're gay or not. The alternate destination, hell, was not created for people, but for those who rebel against God. The Bible teaches that apart from faith in Christ everyone is bound for this destination by default (John 3:18). To avoid going there you need to repent of your sin and put your faith in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you would see all those "silly" Bible verses in a different light.
Re: Homosexuality Taught by Americans in Private Korean school
Re: Homosexuality Taught by Americans in Private Korean school
"Then there's no use in answering any of your questions, is there?"
Agreed. He/she can read te Bible for themselves. By the way, God didn't change what He said was sin when He wrote the OT and the NT.
"religion kills more than anything or anyone inthe world so stop thinking it possesses some higher moral authority "
Actually this is just not true. Hitler was not a christian; Stalin was not a christian; Kim Jong-il/Kim Il-sung not christians; Mao not a christian; Pol Pot not a christian; Ghengis Khan not a christian; RCC and the Crusades not christian and the list can go on.
These people an dmany like them did not use religion as their cause for world conquest or the extermination of people. Those that do claim to fight in the name of God or religion do so under deception and misguided desires and do not obey God. They warp the Bible's message into justifying their own selfish desires and the unchurched world comes away with a false idea of what really took place.
Now there will be some who will argue that Hitler was a christian and justified his acts by quoting the words 'God' or 'Christian' etc., but anyone can do that. One does not need to be a christian to invoke God's name and those who practice sin are not of God inspite of their claims to the contrary (1 John).
Plus christians are not brainwashed as we allow people to have free choice just like God does. The people doing the brainwashing are evolutionists and the rest of the secular world as they demand a monopoly in schools and other areas of life. That fact is brainwashing whereas Christianity allows for people to hold different views because we know the truth and no matter what someone says or does doesn't change that fact.
God possesses the higher morality and He has revealed it unto us so we know what is right and wrong and can make the proper choice.
Re: Homosexuality Taught by Americans in Private Korean school
Well, you guys might be above trying to convince Tharp but he is not the only one interested in this debate and you have managed to evade his question with the skill of a White House press secretary.
So please, just to end this debate conclusively, which passage of the new testament refers specifically to homosexuality?
Re: Homosexuality Taught by Americans in Private Korean school
Homosexuality=immorality. In Matthew 15:19-21, Jesus says, "For out of the heart comes evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander." All of these appear in Leviticus and Deuteronomy, OT books Jesus validated.
Re: Homosexuality Taught by Americans in Private Korean school
Re: Homosexuality Taught by Americans in Private Korean school
Jesus validated Leviticus? Really? Are you prepared to defend all of the laws in Leviticus? No, you are not.
You still point out NOWHERE in the NT where homosexuality is explicitly mentioned. You lose.
You are such brainwashed sheep. Have fun praying to your imaginary god and believing in your book of fairy tales. I'll continue an unfettered life of freethinking.
Re: Homosexuality Taught by Americans in Private Korean school
And many of my friends are gay. I grew up with homosexuals, went to school with many, and spent years working in the theater, which is well represented with gays. Judgemental religious fanatics like yourselves only earn my deep and utter contempt. I will hold it always and fight against all the real harm you and your ilk bring to mankind.
You guys give a sour reek to the tolerance and revolution that Jesus actually preached. If he were here today, I do believe he'd slap you both around with his sandals, if he managed to stop puking.
Re: Homosexuality Taught by Americans in Private Korean school
Now Dogarse knows why we didn't want to answer tharp. We get blamed for things we did not do, write or determine. We are also accused of things we have not done but merely reported so a question could be answered.
Tharp's rant and hatred is out of place and shows his ignorance as he thinks christians do not have gay friends or acquaintances or treat them like scum if they don't. The pure and simple fact is christians are to treat the homosexual as Christ would want while not legitimizing their sinful behavior.
What the Bible says has nothing to do with brainwashing and I bet that tharp does not have the same attitude toward chil dmolesters as he does homosexuals. After all child molesters can be very nice people when they want to be, just like the homosexual.
I will bet that he has not been in some hard core homosexual bars and has no idea of the reality behind the nice smoke screen he is shown by his friends.
Re: Homosexuality Taught by Americans in Private Korean school
Re: Homosexuality Taught by Americans in Private Korean school
"Are you prepared to defend all the laws in Leviticus? No, you are not." I don't have to. Jesus did when he said in Matthew 5:17 that he did not come to abolish the law and the prophets.
"You guys give a sour reek to the tolerance and revolution that Jesus actually preached." Which Jesus are you talking about? The one who said identified sexual immorality (which includes homosexuality) as an "evil thought" in Matthew 15:19? The "tolerant" Jesus who said in John 14:6, "I and the Father are one. No one comes to the Father but through me."
Do you understand what he said? He just invalidated all religions and gods but his own. And where did the Jesus of the Bible preach revolution? When he was led away to be crucified he stopped his followers from using knives to defend him. Some revolution!
The Jesus you have is a straw man.
Re: Homosexuality Taught by Americans in Private Korean school
Dakota: The fact that you compare gays to child molesters just further proves your ignorance and reel feelings towards them. As far as me going to "hard core gay bars," I'm not sure what you're onto, other than that gay men may participate in some sexual practices that I find disgusting. Maybe so, but it's not my place to condemn them for it, nor yours, nor your outdated old book. What consenting adults do on their own is their business, not yours or mine. End of.
Scandalon: So you AGREE with Leviticus and the other OT books? Do you think that menstruating women should spend the week in the menstruation shed? Do you think that there is a proper way to "kill your slaves?" Do you think that lepers should be cast out of our communities? Such things and worse are outlines in the OT, so I guess Jesus just agreed with all of that BS. This is just the tip of the ice berg.
I bet you also believe that the Earth is 6,000 years old and Adam and Eve were riding around on dinosaurs. And to think that you are allowed to pollute the minds of students with such hokum and claptrap.
Re: Homosexuality Taught by Americans in Private Korean school
I am not going to get into a fight over this. If you missed the point just say so and avoid the attack. Your attitude undermines your position and your hatred fo rthose who believe in something shows that you have less tolerance than you accuse christians of having.
Actually it is God's and His 'outdated book's place, fr He is th eultimate morality and He gets to decide what is right or wrong. Also, We would not know about His decrees if we did not have that book. Just because it disagrees with you doesn't mean it is wrong or that homosexuality is correct behavior. They have free choice as well and if they choose to practice what God calls an abomination then they have no right to whine and complain when they are treated badly, omitted from certain benefits or sent to hell. They chose to practice sin.
Not really as yoou demonstrate a willful ignorance towards right and wrong, scriptures and other rules that violate your sensibilities. Remember you are not God and your views on this topic do not matter. They are no greater than the next person's but if you want to hang out ith gays, that is up to you. Keep in mind if you violate God's rules then you have a problem just as the homosexual does.
You an they cannot appeal to one aspect of God, love, and think you will not be punished for your wrong acts. Love sets the rules and when the rules get broken, love punishes properly.
I have no idea if they rode on dinosaurs or not but they were there at the same time. The only thing that is 'hokum and claptrap' is evolution. it is based solely upon assumptin, conjecture and theory nothing else. Remember not one evolutionist was present at the beginning of time or life thus they can never say what took place or how.
Re: Homosexuality Taught by Americans in Private Korean school
"Maybe so, but it's not my place to condemn them for it, nor yours, nor your outdated old book." Talk about adventures in missing the point! The point is that it's a Christian-sponsored school, so the principal was acting in good faith when he enforced Christian guidelines when disciplining teachers who rejected them. Since it he was the principal of the school it was his place to "condemn" them, or discipline them, or complain to higher-ups about their immoral behavior.
It's not my place to condemn abortion advocates or homosexuals, but the Bible clearly does. See previous posts.
"So you agree with Leviticus and the other OT books?" Well, yes, as a Christian, although the ceremonial aspects of it no longer apply. "Do you think there is a proper way to kill your slaves"? No, I'm personally against slavery. That was the Old Covenant under the theocratic nation of Israel. With the New Covenant under Jesus, enslaving men is not advocated, and murder is prohibited.
"And I bet you believe that the earth is 6,000 years old" Never said that. Again, this is more adventures in missing the point. "And to think that you are allowed to pollute the minds of students with such hokum and claptrap." Again, missing the point. It's about another English teacher who works at a Christian-sponsored school where presumably they were "polluting the minds of students." I'm personally only allowed to teach English. However, I have taught what you call "hokum" and "claptrap" in churches I have attended.
Re: Homosexuality Taught by Americans in Private Korean school
Re: Homosexuality Taught by Americans in Private Korean school
This has gotten a bit out of hand and away from the original post....
The point is:
Teaching anything about homosexuality and sex in the classroom is completely inappropriate. Those teachers were out of line and should have been told to stop.
HOWEVER... There is absolutely no justification for Mr. Avants to be classifying an entire country's people in such a negative manner because of a bad experience with a few of us. I can't stand when people say they don't like Americans, or Germans, or Koreans, etc just because of a one or a few people that they may have had a bad experience with. It's completely ignorant and close-minded.
And seriously, judging someone for going to Vietnam because he thinks it's a prostitute's country?!? My husband and I absolutely loved Vietnam and clearly we weren't there for the hookers. I would recommend Vietnam for anyone who loves to travel.
Maybe he shouldn't have been fired for pointing that out, since I agree that those teachers should not have touched those subjects, but the bottom line is his attitude towards things that he doesn't agree with. I'm not a religious person and frankly all of this Bible talk has made my head spin, but I respect people who believe in God and I respect opinions that are different than mine. This guy just needs to stop judging people and entire countries. Open your eyes- there's an entire country of Americans (and Vietnamese who are not looking for prostitutes) who are good people!
And really, "Teacher X looks at the young girls there with lust in her heart...with greedy eyes that want to eat.".... Seriously?? This is comical.
Re: Homosexuality Taught by Americans in Private Korean school
I agree that he was a bit over the top in his comments about foreign teachers here. I've also been to Vietnam for reasons other than prostitution. But why he was fired can be found in the comment by his superior: "Be quiet or else I will terminate your contract. Let them teach what they want." Apparently, he was fired because he protested that they were teaching what they wanted, even in violation of clear biblical principles. To rub salt in his protest, his superior apparently made Teacher W the principal!
"The bottom line is his attitude towards things he doesn't agree with." No, the bottom line is he acted in good faith about biblical principles he believed proscribed homosexual behavior and the teaching of abortion. These are principles people normally associate with a Christian school. But he was rewarded for this with a slap in the face and an insult. If his story is true, that's a disgrace.
Re: Homosexuality Taught by Americans in Private Korean school
"...they were definitely there at the same time."
HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHA.
Humans and dinosaurs together. Right.
Science? Who needs it? All of them God-hatin' eggheads with their secular humanism.
Dude. You live in the stone age. You are the most clueless person I have ever come across on this website, which is saying something. You fundies have switched off your brains in exchange for blind, ignorant faith in invisible entities. You are just as bad as the Taliban.
Please go home and don't spread your ridiculous poison internationally.
Re: Homosexuality Taught by Americans in Private Korean school
My first hogwan owners were devote christians and I never met such evil people in my 40years on planet earth. They chronically screwed everyone over on all levels of the hogwan food chain, even the cleaning lady. These messagers of god would repent on Sunday so I guess that made it ok to walk over people the other 6days a week.
On the other hand I work with a heavily church involved person and he is probably the nicest person I have ever met. He is soft spoken, a wonderful person to be around and gives off such a positive ora.
I have no problems with faith as long as it makes you a better person but don't pray for me, I don't want anything of it. I simply don't believe in resurrection no matter how many other wonderful stories you shove down my throat.
Re: Homosexuality Taught by Americans in Private Korean school
Humans and dinosaurs together? Right. Try Cambodia for starters.
http://www.dinosaursandman.com/index.php?option=com_zoom<emid=15&catid=12
Apparently, dragon legends were more than just legends.
Re: spreading ridiculous poison. And teaching students that it's OK to engage in behavior that spreads things like AIDS and venereal disease is health food?
Re: Homosexuality Taught by Americans in Private Korean school
Re: Homosexuality Taught by Americans in Private Korean school
"We are here to teach English." Absolutely. But what kind of English? English based on reading which supports immorality or blindly supports evolution...in a school with Christian sponsorship?
Morality and Christian schools go together. Without biblical morality, you have a phony Christian school, and a fraud being foisted on Koreans. What you call "tripe" is really the crux of the issue. And it takes no expert to see that Christianity and teaching homosexuality are incompatible.
BTW, teaching Christian morality is part of practicing what you preach. Sounds like that hagwon owner was one who didn't. Big difference.
Re: Homosexuality Taught by Americans in Private Korean school
''Morality and Christian schools go together''
Tell that to the boys of St. Vincent and all the other father Nelson victims around the world. I just about spit my coffee my coffee when I read that line. It's that kind of rhetoric that turns normal people looking for spiritual guidance away from the church.
Re: Homosexuality Taught by Americans in Private Korean school
Re: Homosexuality Taught by Americans in Private Korean school
"So please, just to end this debate conclusively, which passage of the new testament refers specifically to homosexuality?"
Make that passages. In addition to Romans 1:24-32, there is 1 Corinthians 6:9 (NAS), "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effiminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor he covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God."
Also, 1 Timothy 1:9-10, the law is made for "those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted."
Re: Homosexuality Taught by Americans in Private Korean school
Please stop presenting your ideas (bible, dinosaurs, AIDS) as fact when science generally runs counter to them. That doesn't mean you're always wrong but it means you can't state anything with any certainty. You have no authority, moral or otherwise.
Food for thought-
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weakness, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still purely primitive, legends which are nevertheless pretty childish." Albert Einstein
"I'm not an atheist and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many different languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God." Albert Einstein
My take on that is, be the awestruck child and accept that you know very little. It's foolish to be dogmatic.
Btw, for some Christian denominations do not view monogamous same sex relationships as sinful or immoral. These include the United Church of Canada, and the United Church of Christ. [20] In particular, the Metropolitan Community Church was founded specifically to serve the Christian LGBT community.
Re: Homosexuality Taught by Americans in Private Korean school
"The word of God is nothing more than the expression and product of human weakness." Then why call it the "word of God?" If it is, it's as powerful as the sovereign God of the universe.
"It seems unChristian-like to behave as you do;" Actually, warning people of the consequences of sin is very Christ-like. Jesus said unless you repent (of your sins) you will all perish (Luke 13:3).
"Causing divisiveness when there should be respect for difference, a harmless difference."Homosexuality is not harmless. In Jude 1:7 it says, "In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire." In the US, June is Gay Pride month. I'm sure if the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah could leave the eternal fire, they'd be warning straights and gays alike that there's nothing to celebrate about immorality.
"Some denominations do not view monogamous same sex relationships as sinful or immoral." Neither did Sodom and Gomorrah. They'd better read the words of Jesus in Matthew 7:21-23 a little more carefully: "Not everyone who says to me 'Lord, Lord' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my father who is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, 'Lord, Lord did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me you evildoers.'
Re: Homosexuality Taught by Americans in Private Korean school
Re: Homosexuality Taught by Americans in Private Korean school
"As a christian, I believe that a loving, monogamous couple is a good union." If you're a Christian, then you should agree with how Jesus defines that. He himself further defines the two people as a man and a woman in Matthew 19:4-5, "Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,' and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'..." Nowhere in Scripture does it say that a man and a man or a woman and a woman are a good union. In fact, it resulted in a fiery punishment in Sodom and Gomorrah which is shown as an example of what God thinks of homosexual unions.
"I am surprised that more people of faith do not decry war and its effects." Governments engaged in plenty of wars during Jesus' time, yet he did not command his disciples to decry it. Instead, he indirectly commanded them to preach the Gospel in Luke 24:47, "and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations,"
"I agree with Chllin that we cannot cherry pick what we personally are having difficulty dealing with on this planet." True dat. That's why we must examine Scripture carefully before we conclude that it supports homosexual unions. It's quite clear neither Jesus nor the apostles did.
Re: Homosexuality Taught by Americans in Private Korean school
Re: Homosexuality Taught by Americans in Private Korean school
Re: Homosexuality Taught by Americans in Private Korean school
"loving monogamous relationship" That's a myth. Studies show that these relatinoships only last from 1-3 years, then the partners go looking for more sex from others. What's monogamous about that-- And what's loving about exposing your partner to AIDS or the myriad of other venereal diseases people who practice anal intercourse spread-
"gang rape" Sorry, the destruction of Sodom and Gommrah was all about homosexual sex, not merely gang-rape. In the Genesis 19 account, the men of the city expressed a desire to have sex with Lott's male visitors. They turned down a desperation offer by Lott for his daughters. If it had been gang rape, they would've taken up Lott on his offer. Besides, gang-rape happened in Judges 19:25 and God's response wasn't to destroy the city by fire. God destroyed Sodom and the surrounding cities because what they were doing were detestable acts (Ezekiel 16:50). Homoexuality is defined as detestable in Leviticus 20:13. Sorry, but your theory is wrong.
Re: Homosexuality Taught by Americans in Private Korean school
OK...
Franlky, I would probably would NEVER go near such issues unless the subject is pursued by the asker, which is to say I haven't and I dont see myself ever doing so..
..however, your ideology comes across as archaic.
Which is not a suprise when you look at the context of repression.
However the fact that xyz etc have been allowed to teach HONESTLY is, well, amazingly beautiful. Wether or not I agree on this particular example, Students should all be aware its up to them wether or not they believe that whichg they are told. At the end of the day, its the truth. Also, if something is real, Students (of an age appropriate level, of course) should be aware of it..right? So I do not see any reason for those grounds of complain, except for the teachers needing to be reminded to focus on class content, unless (as is in some text books!) the class was about this subject.
Frankly, get over the Homosexuality issue, move on, and next time focus on whatever the real issues are..repression within yourself...or...the deriliction of duties on the part of the instructor.
I also agree that it is a good thing you are no longer teaching there... However, in your defense, or at least THE WAY YOU PUT IT ACROSS..the teachers spent a little too much time focusing on ONE side of the debate.
..essentially no one is going to hell, except after they see the tooth fairy...ok, sorry for that. But I believe, when it comes down to basics...judge not lest ye be judged yourself...good is good, regardless of preference, if you dont cause harm to others, your in the good book, if you are devout and cause harm emotionally or otherwise, your in the s**t list..end of story...and it is important to respect the place you are in..and true respect means truth. If someone is beating someone based on race, you would illuminate their error for their own benefit ...right...this is no different, again, unless it was overstated -as it came across in this post.
..and to clarify my position in no uncertain terms, its NOT COOL to be teaching young children about ANY kind of sexual activity. However you deem it to stand morally. Now, if they are over 16 and ASKED, its excusable to touch upon things briefly and tell them to ask their parents, wether they choose to believe it fully or not..and if theyre 18 or over, i think its ok to talk about things generally...again, i wasnt there so i cant comment on the point the original poster made but..i must say, beating people with ideology is no way to behave, and when in a place that a lot of things are witheld for sake of pride or whatever, some change can be good..for sake of evolution, so hats off to the school for not making a big deal out of it..still it would seem that the students/parent didnt complain or those teachers would have been gone faster than you could have sighed...seems you made a mountain out of a mole hill and it fell on you.
p.s. i wonder if there are any Buddhist universities, I'd love to see that, too many churches, i thought the crusades were over....and i was christened catholic, and went to a christian school followed by a catholic school..so I understand the mind of a devout christian. and it is not always the healthy place it portrays itself to be.
Jesus! You guys already wrote
Jesus! You guys already wrote a book on this guy's book. I just love how you guys correct people. 21 jobs? Wow, thats pretty bad. Sex in Korea? You aren't even Korean yet you know what is best for these kids? Do you even speak the language? Understand the culture?
Wow, I bet Jesus would be pissed off at you if he was alive. WWJD? Well, I am pretty sure he wouldn't try to start a shitstorm on a forum on the internet.
Good luck in Mongolia or wherever you end up. May your god have pitty upon your soul.
Re: Homosexuality Taught by Americans in Private Korean school
This is at Scandalon, whom I hope is making an attempt at parody, and if so, good job, but if not, wow.
First, the Sodom and Gomorrah quip was about gang rape, perpetuated by humans on angels. They wanted to have sex with the guests, presumably because they were friggin' angels, without concern for- no, despite protest againast and against the wishes of the catcher (heehee)- consent with the friggin' angels. With the assumption that your Judeo-Christianic, anthropomorphic God exists as is written, then you can assume that he had a problem with a bunch of dirty Sodomites dirtying up his posse. If it was about homosexuality, why didn't he reign the same fire and brimstone- literally- down on any other antagonizing towns the same way he did with Sodom and Gomorrah? Why was Sodom and Gomorrah mentioned in particular? Surely you don't think it those two towns were the only places pitching in their own yard. Or, even with Hellenic culture- why have they and their descendents persisted?
Yeah, yeah, God silent something or another, but for someone who takes his translated, filtered bible so literally, one would assume that your idea of God is like Superman and magic. Let's even go further- why didn't God just kill all of those cute, furry gay animals whose existence we know from modern populist documented observations (ie Youtube/HuffPo) back then? Even further than that, what about the spiritual scions, the men of the cloth who preach putting in the muff during private sessions with little boys? You don't think that God would have a bigger problem with that?
And about the men rejecting Lot's daughters, well- we've all had that experience where we head down to Chinatown with the idea of getting that newly released bootleg of Tree of Life to have a hawker try to sell us Transformers in lieu of what we wanted originally wanted. I mean, sheesh! Talk about a cock block! Dissatisfaction at its finest. OR Maybe Lot's girls had been not only hit with, but beat down by the ugly stick. Maybe the guests were particularly pretty. I mean, they were angels. Maybe they were like the proto-metro/dandy/macaroni. Who knows. Maybe they girls've been around. I mean, they did get their dad drunk and did the dirty with him. Essentially raped him (by our society's standards). Not exactly paragons of virtue.
Also, to have any real confidence w/r/t the TRANSLATED English version of the Bible, you'd have to consult biblical scholars. Since the text (NT) is in Greek or Arameic (I forget which and don't care to do that tiring work of Googling), the text you receive is filtered. (My feeling is that you have not done this. A bird tells me.) And even if you want to take the stance of Divine Inspiration of the editors and translators, that the text is "perfect" (despite the continued existence of opposing/altered versions like the lyrical King James versus the whatever), human interpretation, meaning yours (assuming you are human [I'm feeling very liberal today]), is not. Like creationism in US schools, this is not a controversy. Unlike creationism in US schools, this point is argued and argued validly by those in the know. And unless you think you are the very infallable reincarnation of Jesus or an avatar of God, you- sir- are fallable as is your take on biblical text. To claim otherwise is to claim arrogance onto yourself to the same degree as Milton's Lucifer. But, it's not the end of the world even if you do believe this. Milton's Lucifer was like a rock star. You're like a rock star. Will you start eating bat heads and donning big, poofy wigs like all the mod glam bands?
Btw, this all from an Agnostic/Atheist. Rock on.
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To the OP, I can't trust anyone who doesn't dig the Pho.
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