Trevor, there are 3 ways now for a person to get an F series visa without being family to a Korean.
The F2-S (points) is one way. You just need to have an E visa for one year and get enough points. After being on the F2-S for 3 years, you can then apply for the F5.http://www.korea4expats.com/article-E7-visa-to-F2.htmlhttp://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=2618175The F2-99 is another if you've been here five years and make enough money. YOu'll need to get a Korean to sponsor you.1. To upgrade from the F2-99 to F5, you usually have to wait 3 years. (F2-1 is 2 years).2. To upgrade from the F2-99 to F5 quicker, you just need TOPIK level 2 and make 1 x Korea's GNI. You can apply for the F5 as soon as you have the F2-99.http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=2611753The F5-A is yet another option.1. Been on the same E-2 visa for over five years2. Annual income of over 45 million won (I think this requirement changes each year depending on the GDP)3. Korean language ability (At leastTOPIK level 3)4. No criminal record in Korea.http://www.hikorea.go.kr/pt/en/info/pop ... -2_pop.htmhttp://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtop ... 94#2616294
There are some language requirements, and I think that's what Angel is talking about.
I'm always a bit wary of information posted on chat forums (like this) as there is often conflicting information and secondhand knowledge. However, your links provide some useful stuff. Another problem is that a lot of information on official Korean websites can be outdated.
The F2-S seems quite difficult to get. I only scraped in with 83 points. The other paths don't seem that easy either. 45 million a year works out to about 3,750,000 a month, probably only from one employer not including money made from secondary sources such as privates. I don't think that many people can get an F2 visa in this way. Also, I suspect that immigration can arbitrarily reject your application for any reason.
The Korean language test of choice for immigration used to be the KLPT. Information I received a while ago regarding F5s stated that you needed level 3 on the KLPT (not that easy) as it more vocational than TOPIK which is more academic. I've taken both tests and I think TOPIK level 3 is easier than KLPT level 3. However, perhaps they've changed to the TOPIK.
I already have an F5 so I don't need to worry about this, but it's useful for other people who are interested in getting an F2 or F5 visa.
It still doesn't answer Angel's claims that people are getting F-2-1s as the visas mentioned are other types of F2 and ultimately F5s.
Param, we are not back home so the argument is moot. If I left korea right now I would take home to upstate New York with me around $500,000 US dollars. I own a house in that region of America as well.
I certainly wouldn't be serving you anything but an eviction notice.
Another LBS nonsequitur- boasting again mate!!! The point is, some people have been awarded such visas, mainly in Seoul and some here too.My point remains , that Korea needs more economic migrants. Why not English teachers?Why wouldn't people take advantage?
No, Angel he came right out of the gate calling me (you and all teachers here I might add) nothing better than opportunists and if we weren't here we would be flipping burgers at home. Perhaps you should read the passage again. This is most definately not true in my case or of the small company of friends I keep.
As for my bosting if that is a source of anger for you I ask you this; are you more upset about my financial success or your apparent failures?
I will not wear a hairshirt for the rest of my days because I and my wife did the right thing over the last 15years and save our money instead of blowing it away like many people do.
Calling me a failure to my face is fine. Writing it, makes you even more so.In my experience, people with big money don't advertise it. Well, where I come from, they don't talk about chump change.I wouldn't be bragging about 500k and having house in NY.
Considerring your age, time spent, that's a poor return. With careful investments, most monkeys would have made at least double that in a shorter time, at the track or casino.Very gross indeed, one thing about time that never changes, everyone hates a braggert. You are no better than anyone else here, just lucky.Judge yourself in financial terms if you want to, Playa." I'm just laughing at ya", as Tupac would say.
Sorry, this isn't about LBS, is it???"Stix and Stonzz", stick to the topic please,can we?We want to dicuss the visa business , not : oxymorons,semantics or any other unrelated rubbish.
Busanmum was on the money, Ta.
So LBS...you're a millionaire who enjoys trolling around on Koreabridge?
No, I'm not a millionaire unless my house near Albany is 500k and it isn't. It is paid for though. I have no debts.
So you are saying the average English teacher in Korea with 15 years service has an average of $1,000,000?That I would like to see, anyone? and you?
Your response reeks of sour grapes my friend. But you answered my question, attack when confronted with the fact that you have a botton collection. But enough about me, you supposively have an MA from Princton and a PHD(the abbreviations you don't know) from Oxford and you teach English in Korea? (these were your words before the post was taken down)
Now really who's the liar here? and if you aren't then who's the loser?
I'm willing to bet that 99% of these "F-2-1 Machiavellian" types (you're kidding, right?) could put together a far more coherent message board posting than Angel. And I'm willing to bet that 100% of them would know better than to use the non-existent word "supposively".
As I perused this thread, I couldn't help but wonder if there weren't two worse defenders of the wages of ESL teachers in Korea. Seriously, I know this comment is probably going to get edited, but even if this only stays online for an hour or two, it's worth letting the two of you know that you embarrass me (and probably the vast majority of people reading but not getting involved in this mess).
And before you bring up your academic and financial accomplishments, let me just say it doesn't matter. If you're a teacher of English, you should be capable of expressing yourself in a way that makes sense, and you should know the word "supposedly".
Supposively..too funny. And for the love of god people, it's "definitely" NOT "definately." Lbs & angel, please come back quickly, tell the grammar police to eff off, and carry on. It's entertaining.
If this was a thread about basket weaving or women's volleyball, then I would agree that the grammar police should eff off. However, this is a thread partially dedicated to the idea that F2 teachers (who Angel and LBS represent) deserve a higher hourly wage than the ones that have been offered lately. That being said, I think it's fair to point out that no parents should pay someone who uses the word "supposively" 40-50K per hour to teach English to their children.
Pedantic prat- Ah, the clever one has arrived. Sad that you "supposively" think yours is good.What a joker!Your comma use isn't exactly there yet Cool Boss. If you want to make such comments, then one has to be, too.I suspect you are old friend in disguise, masquerading as an idiot.By the way, it's Paul and LBs that care "so much" about Hakwon rates.
I know Angel and LBS are particularly upset about the hagwons that advertise here, but having been in Busan about 6 years, I don't remember part-times at hagwons ever consistently offering more than 25-30 an hour.
If you're going to respond specifically to a post why don't you repsond to my question regarding something you wrote in your post. This is related to content not grammar. I'll put it here again.
"However, there is an old F2 visa has been adjusted to F-2-1.It's funny, how many deluded people are doing voluntary and language courses,etc, to get the F-2-1 visa."
Do you know anyone who has received an F-2-1 visa by "doing voluntary and language courses" without getting married to a Korean person?
I said "yes" to that question before. I know people who are not married and have the visa. I do admire your true grit.I also said that some E2s are vultures.In addition to that, I know a few F visas(2) who married for money.I respect neither.
I'm pretty late to this post, but I am also new to Koreabridge. I've been in and out of Korea for several years, working in hagwons and even doing 'privates' on the sly, so I am guilty of skimming off the top from some. But, I was in Daegu, so hopefully that didn't wrench any of your pockets. I've read a lot here about the differences between F-2's and E-2's, and many of the points are valid, i.e.: "F-2 means experience, perhaps maturity" and "F-2 only means you're married to a Korean". Both of these are true. However, what really wrenches my pockets is that I have teaching experience in both Korea and the United States, and I have a teaching certificate in Language Arts and Reading, and these hagwons and schools treat me as if "F-2 only means you're married to a Korean". For fuck's sake, I have a BA in English, credentials, experience both here and there... and you treat me as if I'm not a 'real' teacher! Get fucked. But, most of us know, that the difference between being a 'face' and a 'teacher' here is... well, perhaps, non-existent. So, to all of you that really teach and really care--congrats. To the rest, who "this was my best out before my folks kicked me off the couch and my supply ran out", get lost. E2's need to want to be teachers, even if the hagwon doesn't care. F2's need to do more than just love their wives and pay taxes. If you're here to teach, then teach and make as much as you can, but do it legally and do it right. There wasn't a single private lesson I did as an E-2 that I did just to make money. In fact, I did so many free lessons and edits and proofreads that I am sure I worked for (coffee)beans. But, that doesn't make it legal. Yet, it doesn't make it wrong either. (Yes, Lee, this last post skims the top of my pocket too. But, how can you make a systematic change without reform, without give and take?)
And I quote:
"Your comma use isn't exactly there yet Cool Boss."
If you care to point out my usage error, get to it. I'm sure it will go about as well as LBS commenting on sentence fragments. You guys know grammar like a double amputee plays basketball.
Sorry for thinking you cared about hagwon rates... you just care about your ludicrous conspiracy that E2 visa holders seeking to improve their visa status in Korea are vultures. Did I misinterpret that?
Comedian , smart alec and editor. Don't give up your day job, if you've got one?
What's the only line of defense when you don't have an opinion? attack spelling and grammar. . That's fine i can take a hit as it is deserving. I can spell fine by the way I just can't type.
Regardless of my typos, people sell themselves too short and I only went off on because someone attacked our entire community as losers with no where to go.
Have a good day.
By the way, I do have an opinion on all of this. Personally, I don't like separating E2s and F2s when I'm thinking of teachers here; instead, I like to think of people as good teachers and bad teachers. There are plenty of the latter who are F2s, there are plenty of the former who are E2s, and vice-versa. As much as some of you (realistically, one of you) go out of your way to demonize teachers on E2s as educational succubi, I think that's a paranoid falsehood. I really think you should save your anger for those people who don't give a care about their job, and there are definitely people from both categories (E2s and F2s) that fit that description.
In terms of private wages, you are what you think you are worth, I suppose, and from what I've seen and heard, it's the bad teachers--the ones who can't hold onto private jobs because they are simply bad/mediocre at what they do--who are quick to pick up whatever jobs they can, no matter the wage. Those teachers who put in the work and are effective with a wide variety of students normally have no problem finding jobs with a decent pay rate because parents pass their contact information along to other parents. I know Angel and LBS are particularly upset about the hagwons that advertise here, but having been in Busan about 6 years, I don't remember part-times at hagwons ever consistently offering more than 25-30 an hour. It's disappointing that 99% of the jobs on the site offer a low wage, but that's largely because only recruiters and hagwons seem to be advertising in the "Jobs Offered" section of this site; if you had study rooms, parents, and adult students looking for teachers, you'd see plenty of the 40-50 an hour jobs you guys seem to feel you are owed. Until these kinds of ads start showing up on Koreabridge again, people are left to their own knowhow and connections to find these better-paying jobs; considering the both of you have Korean wives and years of experience here, you have a leg up on these awful Machiavellian E2s (Angel's approximate words).
No, CB, I was totally agreeing with you. I was being the grammar police, too. (Just search the word "definately" here and see how many people use it!) And in light of this thread's topic regarding quality teachers, the mistakes were all the more entertaining. By "tell the grammar police to eff off" I was just predicting that they would immediately come back with something along the lines of "if that's your only line of defense"...which they did!
And don't forget it's acceptable to start sentences with 'And....'.
In addition your period before 'By' constitutes a sentence fragment it's not a sentence at all. There is no need for you to place a period and then capitalize the 'By'. It would have been just fine without the unneeded punctuation and capitalized letter. It isn't the beginning of a sentence or a proper noun.
If you are going to rip people for spelling and grammar you should at least hold yourself to the same standards.
"By "tell the grammar police to eff off" I was just predicting that they would immediately come back with something along the lines of "if that's your only line of defense"...which they did!"
This is the sentence of Shiner's you're referring to. This sentence is grammatically correct, even though I suppose you could be overly picky and say that there should be a comma after the dependent clause "By 'tell the grammar police to eff off'. The main clause comes after that. Voila! You have a sentence! If he had followed your advice, he would have had a run-on sentence-- kind of like the ones you write all of the time.
Also, your use of "supposively" was neither a spelling mistake nor a typo, even though I can understand why you'd want to pass it off as such; it's pretty humiliating to be an English teacher and not understand one of the 1000 most commonly used words in English. There is a huge difference between "supposedly" and "supposively", both in spelling (3 letters that just happen to comprise the suffix) and on the keyboard, so the reality is you just didn't know the word.
Judging by the number of F2's recently advertising for work either there has been a large influx of us, or the hagwons having read this thread have decided to punish us and illegally employ E2's.
A question to F2's: "Why do you work in a hagwon?" You can legally register your apartment as a home school and start working for yourself. Yes there is risk, however working in some hagwons is also a risk, as to whether or not you will be paid. If you were to charge students w250,000 a month for 5 days a week of classes, 12 students is w3,000,000 a month. This is probably 3 hours a day assuming 4 per class. You won't start with 12 students but it certainly looks better than w25,000 per hour. Yes you have to pay tax, and outgoings, but hagwons charge you tax anyway, and the outgoings would be quite small and if working from home you aren't paying for transport.
We work in an industry that is declining due to the low birth rate and the fact that Koreans are getting better at English and some no longer need teachers. Your best plan is to make money while you can.
Just my two cents worth.
Now it's obviously a good thing that we work together for better pay but surely you can see that there are lot of people chasing positions and extra work. I wouldn't tell anyone how much to work for unless I actually knew them. The people taking these jobs may be desperate for money and work.
These days even the F2 visa market has been saturated and with all the new people coming it isn't unthinkable that in the future some of them will love Korea or fall in love with a Korean and stay.
In any economy it's supply and demand... hogwans are failing and going bust = less demand. Lots of people coming = more supply. Prices and wages will go down so make yourself sellable. Get good references, look more presentable, get as much experience as you can, have a positive attitude whenever you meet someone and also try for a qualification. (Yes, I did list them in a specific order.)
argument on visa status aside, i find nothing suprising about certain companies acting like this. having worked for a particular company ("maybe" this one...maybe not) *Ambiguity to be explained...
i had a lot of grief when i stood up against some policies and things that would have screwed all their employees nationwide, i had a long battle fought for me by my manager who knew how good a teacher i am..although as an F2 i didnt really care, ended up finishing my contract (and high position), and got out when my time came...mmm severance-PAID.
*the reason i am so ambiguous over the name of the company is that i was told in no uncertain terms i would be SUED if i told anyone what happened.
Essentially i would steer clear of contracts with certain big companies..theyre worse than then small ones who get a bad rep.
Wait my foreigner friends just wait for few more months. Korean government is going approve Indian and Philippine people for teaching English in Korea. So be ready for a big change and a big change in your salary too because I believe everyone know when the supply is high then the cost will reduce too ;) those people who are just undergraduate and think they are teacher trust me you really can’t compete with the graduate(master) specially with English course from India or Philippines. Yeah still the color and race will dominate for little while because you guys are getting more money compare to a Phd or Master in many specialized major in Korea. So stop whining about less money and get ready for a change.
Bitter? Hater? Racist? They've been allowing this for a long time. Nothing new. If South Korea thinks that is the way to go ,so be it. There's China next door and other places. Why do you think E2s would care? They just wont come! Somehow, I doubt that you are right. Though, the cheap labour part rings true. How about the quality?
Did you ever think why India, Philippines or Malaysia never had any E-2, F-2(i mean any kind of special English teacher) and still they are doing really amazing work isn't it? Do you know which country got maximum English speaker? Yeah it’s not USA, or China or brazil.. Its India, which country got maximum Call center? Yeah previously it was with India but now its Philippines. Do you know in their school (except very few) there is not a single English teacher from USA, UK, Australia, etc.. and I can bet in terms of English they are really amazing. If you don't believe try to talk sometime with them.. You can believe by yourself..
Yeah you can say that for Indian and Philippines people have their own accents but how about you? You also got your local accent. But what Indian and Philippines people don’t have is Color, Face and nationality which Korean people are looking for.
In terms of quality I will give you just one example, you can see F-2 or E-2 and there are many kind of teacher are teaching in Korea from more than 20 years. But still you can’t find enough people who can speak English properly. Doesn’t it reflect the quality of English Teacher. I can bet a person whose major is English in India or Philippines they can’t be less than any other person in the world.
Sometime I feel really surprise with these comments that how much low Korean people will give to these F-2 or E-2 etc. But did you ever try to figure out there are so many professional in Korea who are more educated and qualified (MS, PhD) then any English teacher and they are getting less money than these high school/middle school pass teacher. What we can call that? When Korean people made documentary about how some foreigner are cheating with some girls then you call them racist but when those girls prefer a particular race then you says its choice? Don’t you think that’s also racism? But you don’t object because that time you are on another side.. he he anyway that’s our Korea.. keep enjoying
I agree with the opinion that many native English "teachers" here are not actually qualified teachers: they are a white face with a degree. However, if you are an example of these great English teachers from India, the Philippines etc. then, judging by your writing, they're not much chop.
By the way, does having an MA or PhD mean you are a better teacher? In my experience, people with PhDs are often poor teachers.
Ha Ha my guess was right.. You really even didn’t think about that what I am talking. Just try to judge who I am and what is wrong with my writing. When did I say I am a qualified English teacher from India or Philippines? First thing my major was not even close to English, even I study all subject in totally different language just like people in Korea study everything in Korean. You should thanks to our education system that even I am not a qualified English teacher at least I can communicate properly. ;) but still my English is not that bad ha ha ha (at least what Korean people says ;) )
Anyway my point is in India and Philippines those people whose major is English I can assure they are really amazing and I can bet they can compete very well because I know their English is perfect. “People with PhDs are often poor teachers” Really? You kidding right? Ha ha I believe you still didn’t met real PhD. And I am not saying every PhD or MA can be a great or good teacher. I know teaching is a special capability which everyone can’t do. But here you got me wrong, my point is Ma or PhD is getting less money compare to English teacher. Those PhD can be teacher, engineer, scientist etc. so what do you think what is the reason behind it?
I never said you were an English teacher. That's why I used an "if" clause.
Why are people who majored in English amazing? Their English is perfect? I don't know annyone native or non-native speaker whose English is perfect. Regarding PhDs being poor teachers, no I'm not kidding. Why is someone with a PhD a good teacher? A PhD isn't a teaching degree, it's a research degree. Most PhDs are researchers who lecture every now and again. Having an MA or PhD has nothing to do with being a good teacher it means you have a more indepth knowledge of your field and can research in your field. Having an MA or PhD does not make you a good teacher.
You stated you could commuicate properly, but it I beg to differ as I can't understand exactly what you're trying to say. At the end you state that an MA or PhD is getting less money than an English teacher. Doing what? Teaching English? If those PhDs can be teachers, engineers, scientists then why aren't they doing those jobs? Where can/are they doing those jobs? I have an MA yet my basic pay here is lower than the average wage back home, so I make less than someone who sweeps the streets in my hometown. By the way, if someone has a PhD in science, say biology, and they are here to teach English, why should they be paid well as an English teacher? They have no EFL qualifications. That goes for both native and non-native speakers. (Notice I used an "if" clause)